Conversations about Clown, Tortell Poltrona

Continuing my investigation about Clown, I had a telephone conversation with Tortell Poltrona, well known Catalan Clown who is also the founder of Payasos Sin Fronteras (Clowns Without Borders). He and his wife Montse run the Circ Cric, in which they are both performing…for more about circ cric, clické to this earlier entry…

(the conversation took place in Spanish, below the English)

Moshe: What is Clown?

Tortell: A provoker of sensations and feelings.

A poet of the art of scenic (stage) poetry.

The Clown is the one who seek to play moments of immortality. It is like a child who doesn’t know what is death. He (she) plays in the complete innocence of life.

The Clown is like a child who is not ashamed to express his feelings. When you become adult, you begin to lie (about feelings) and your natural clown dies.

Clown vs. Comic

The Clown uses a vocabulary of pure feelings.
The comic/comedian works with the reality of sex, religion, politics….

——–

Moshe: Que es Clown

Tortell: Un provacador de sensations y sentimientas

Un poeta del arte de la poesia escenica

El Payasos el Lo que busca momentos de imortalidad…es como un nino que no conoces (que es) la muerte

El payaso es como un nino que no tiene verguenza de expressar su sentiminientos..
Cuando es adulto empienco a hacer mentiras y muere su payaso natural…

Clown o Comico
El Clown utiliso el Vocabulario es de sentimientos puros, feelings…

El Comico o Humorista travaja con la realidad del sexo, la religion, el politico….

Conversations about Clown and Zen: A language of the heart? Kokoro!

This conversation with Roshi Egyoku took place during my six weeks (Jan-Feb 2007) as an artist in residence at the Zen center of Los Angeles. A few times a week, we would sit down for a half hour chat to examine the relationship of Clowning and Zen.

Clown and Kokoro.

One of the great clowns of our time, CWB founder Tortell Poltrana, says that clown is a “lenguage de sentamientos”, a language of feelings..

M: I am always talking about clown, about where people interpret things. I’m always telling people that their eyes need to be alive leading their expression, rather than their mouth. The saying: “the eyes are the windows of the soul” (which exists in many cultures) is very applicable here. If the humor is in the verbal language, then we interpret with our intellect. If the humor is physical than we are more likely to laugh from the heart. If clown is language of sentiments, than perhaps it touches the heart.

E: Well you know it is interesting in Western culture we are so split, the mind and body split is so clearly defined. So in a way we have to use words like heart and spirit just to remind ourselves that there is a whole other dimension here that we are not honoring. It is not totally cerebral. I look at it that way. Really our language should be inclusive of both, I don’t know what that would be, we are going to come up with something.

M: I agree, it is all involved. What I am looking at here is where does it go first, where are you interpreting it, where is the filter, I don’t know if filter is the right word.

E: Well now here is another dimension, in Zen the brain is here-pointing to the center of the body (just below the bellybutton)-in the hara. So that really becomes your brain after a while. You are listening from here. I don’t know, maybe you do to as clown, you’re pretty centered and grounded.

M: I haven’t thought consciously about that, but if you are a good clown I think that you are doing that.

E: I think it is interesting. There is the term kokoro, heart-mind. In other words, the two can’t be separated. I think more and more we can do that.

M: Is that as opposed to the cerebral mind? Is that a different focus of the mind.

E: It’s the whole thing. It is not just here (pointing to hara) or here (pointing to brain), it’s the whole thing. WE may separate it to talk about it, but it is more than that in our culture, because we only value this part, the head, and we haven’t valued the heart. The opening of the heart for our culture(Americans) is really a huge thing for us. I think that it is really happening now. When you encounter Hispanics around here, they are very heart centered, you can feel their heart centered are different. When I look at all the Hispanic nannies, where all these couples in Larchmont, Mom and Dad, are working, and all the Hispanic nannies are raising their kids, thank Heavens. (Laughter) Because they are giving them all this heart energy, as opposed to all this goal oriented stuff.

The kokoro, heart-mind, means the whole thing, the whole thing. The cerebral, the emotions, the psychology, all of that is a totally integrated being. I think (this is) one of the reasons for Westerners to bring the emotions into Zen practice, (it) is really a big practice for us. Very very important because culturally we are numbed out. So I think we don’t know how to feel. And we don’t necessarily know what emotions feel like, and when they arise, we think that something is wrong with us, because we are so repressed. So a big thing that has to happen for Zen students-of course the first thing that happens when you start to sit quietly is that all the emotions come up, and people will come in and say “I’m doing something wrong”. And I will say “ what do you mean?”, and they will say “I am feeling sad” or “I’m feeling angry.” So they have this idea that we are supposed to be numbed out. That’s not true. So meditators over time, if you are really doing it correctly, feel more deeply, you feel everything much more vividly, just like a clown would. And you are able to just roll it all in.
That it is all part, start to accept it, to befriend all these aspects of oneself.

M: So in meditation when you are feeling that, you just sit with it.

E: You just sit with it. You FEEL it. You feel it. And a lot of people don’t know what it is to FEEL it. Very interesting to work with people, to see how long it takes sometimes for them to get: “ hey I’m feeling anger” or “hey, I’m feeling rage.” “ And you know what, it’s okay I can just sit there and feel it.”

M: You are recognizing it is there, you can be that.
E: We go back to being that. We may not be able to be that, but we may just be at the place where “I am feeling bad”. The observer is still there, the separation has to still be there. Some people can never quite close the gap, but for those who persist, at some point, you can just be that flash of anger.

M: Then it will go away.

E: Then it’s gone. “Hey, where did you go? I was just getting into this ! ” (Laughter)

In our discussions, we discussed how a clown needs to be open to one’s intuitive impulses…..

Conversations about Clown: Sotigue Kouyaté at Anjos Do Picadeiro, Rio de Janeiro, 2006.

One of the highlights of the 2006 Anjos Do Picadeiro festival in Brazil was the presence of Sotigue Kouyaté. This Paris based actor is very well known in the theater world , one of Peter Brook’s actors. He comes from Mali, and is a Griot (West African poet, praise singer, and musician). He offered a short workshop and a lecture demonstration. I was able to sneak a brief conversational moment with him….I waited as the ring of enthusiasts, friends, questioners, well wishers following his lecture/demonstration thinned out then walked him from the theater to his waiting ride to the airport.

With the Hotxua present at the festival, what was on my mind are the clown traditions in communities on other continents. We spoke in French  (which is below the English)
Moshe: what is the clown?

Sotigue Kouyaté: The clown, for us, has a special role (function). Because, for us the Griots, we have a song: The serious doesn’t hinder the game, and the game doesn’t hinder the serious.
We can get across the best message through the game (games), even the most dramatic things. So the clown is a message carrier since laughter gives health, it’s a therapy.

Moshe: The clown in Mali, does it have a name?

Sotigue: Cotojuba

Moshe: Are they always men, or are sometimes women also clowns?

Sotigue: Often men.

Moshe: sometimes women?

Sotigue: The women can, but rarely do. Because of their occupation (s),

Moshe: (Speaking of clowns) Is it something that they do for a moment in their life, or is the role lifelong?

Sotigue: It’s in their life, they are obliged to this.

Moshe: Are they chosen?

Sotigue: It’s like a caste. They are obliged. They have to do it.

Moshe: Is this their only occupation, or do they live a normal life.

Sotigue: They live a normal life. During the year, they have the duty to clown.
Moshe: Que ce que le clown:

Sotigue: Le clown, pour nous, ca a un fonction speciale. Par ce que, pour nous les griots, on a une chanson: Le serieux n’empeche pas le jeu, et le jeu n’empeche pas le serieux.
On peut faire passer le meilleur message par le jeu, meme les choses le plus dramatique. Donc le clown est porteur de message puisque le rire donne la santé, c’est une therapie.

Moshe: Le clown au Mali, quel nom a t-il?

Sotigue: Cotojuba

Moshe : Est ce que c’est toujours des hommes, ou c’est parfois les femmes aussi?

Sotigué: Souvent les hommes

Moshe: parfois des femmes?

Sotigué: les femmes peuvent, mais rarement. A cause de leur occupation.

Moshe: Est ce que c’est quel que chose qu’il font pour un moment dans leur vie, ou est ce qu’est pour la vie

Sotigué: C’est dans leur vie. Ils sont obligés a cela.

Moshe: Est ce qu’ils sont choisies?

Sotigué : C’est comme un caste aussi. Ils sont obligés. Ils doivent leur faire.

Moshe: Est ce que c’est leur seul occupation, ou est ce qu’ils vivent une vie normale?

Sotigué: Ils vivent une vie normale. Dans l’année ils ont le devoir de le faire.

Conversations about Clown: Shirley of Teatro Anonimo, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

This conversation took place in December of 2006, during the Anjos Do Picadeiro Festival in Rio De Janeiro. Shirley was speaking in Portuguese, and the Portuguese is below the English version. (abbreviations; M for Moshe, S for Shirley).
M- I’m making interviews about clowns, what it is to be a clown.

S- Uh-hum

M- Do you have some words? To you, what is clown?

S- What is clown? Well, for me… be a clown is, at first place, a privilege. A gift I got on this life and, if I wasn’t a clown, I don’t know what I would be. I think that maybe I would be a lost person; as I think that many people have the potential to be clowns and don’t know it, feel shy of it, are afraid, think that this is less interesting, to be a clown; and the true is that they don’t know how good is to be a clown.

M- Do you think it’s a heart’s language, a language…

S- I think it is a soul’s language, yes, but that after we know that there is this soul, this heart, we must also have the art. And than comes the work. Than we will transform it into a job. Than we must take this soul, this vocation and work. And after I’ll get the techniques. Because it doesn’t help just to have the soul, the spirit and try to be funny. No, we must know how to deal with it to transform it in art. I think it is like a rough stone that one has to lapidate to transform it in a diamond, in a real masterpiece.

M- I understand it.

S- So that’s it. I think it’s a hard job, but also a rewarding job.

M- Thanks.

S- Thank you.

———

M- Estou fazendo entrevistas sobre clowns, o que é ser clown.

S- Uh-hum

M- Você tem algumas palavras? Para você, o que é clown?

S- O que é clown? Bom, para mim… ser palhaça é, em primeiro lugar, um privilégio. Um presente que eu ganhei nesta vida e, se eu não fosse palhaça, eu não sei o que seria. Acho que seria talvez uma pessoa perdida, como acho que muitas pessoas têm o potencial de serem palhaços e não sabem, ter vergonha disso, tem medo, acham que é menos interessante, ser palhaço; e na verdade não sabem o quanto é bom ser palhaço.

M- Você acha que é uma linguagem do coração, uma linguagem…

S- Acho que é uma linguagem da alma, sim, mas que depois que a gente sabe que existe essa alma, esse coração, temos que ter também a arte. Então aí chega o trabalho. Aí vamos transformar em ofício. Então temos que pegar essa alma, essa vocação e trabalhar. Aí sim, eu vou pegar as técnicas. Por que também não adianta só ter alma, só ter espírito e querer fazer graçinha. Não, tem que saber lidar com isso e transformar isso em arte. Acho que é como se fosse uma pedra bruta que se tem que lapidar para transformá-la num diamante, numa verdadeira obra.

M- Entendo

S- É isso. Acho que é um ofício difícil, mas é um ofício gratificante.

M- Obrigado

S- Obrigada você.

Conversations about Clown: Shirley, Clown with Teatro Anonimo, Rio De Janeiro

This conversation with Shirley took place during the Anjos Do Picadeiro festival in December 2006 in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
(abbreviations: M for Moshe, and S for Shirley)

M- I’m making interviews about clowns, what it is to be a clown.

S- Uh-hum

M- Do you have some words? To you, what is clown?

S- What is clown? Well, for me… be a clown is, at first place, a privilege. A gift I got on this life and, if I wasn’t a clown, I don’t know what I would be. I think that maybe I would be a lost person; as I think that many people have the potential to be clowns and don’t know it, feel shy of it, are afraid, think that this is less interesting, to be a clown; and the true is that they don’t know how good is to be a clown.

M- Do you think it’s a heart’s language, a language…

S- I think it is a soul’s language, yes, but that after we know that there is this soul, this heart, we must also have the art. And than comes the work. Than we will transform it into a job. Than we must take this soul, this vocation and work. And after I’ll get the techniques. Because it doesn’t help just to have the soul, the spirit and try to be funny. No, we must know how to deal with it to transform it in art. I think it is like a rough stone that one has to lapidate to transform it in a diamond, in a real masterpiece.

M- I understand it.

S- So that’s it. I think it’s a hard job, but also a rewarding job.

M- Thanks.

S- Thank you.
____________

M- Estou fazendo entrevistas sobre clowns, o que é ser clown.

S- Uh-hum

M- Você tem algumas palavras? Para você, o que é clown?

S- O que é clown? Bom, para mim… ser palhaça é, em primeiro lugar, um privilégio. Um presente que eu ganhei nesta vida e, se eu não fosse palhaça, eu não sei o que seria. Acho que seria talvez uma pessoa perdida, como acho que muitas pessoas têm o potencial de serem palhaços e não sabem, ter vergonha disso, tem medo, acham que é menos interessante, ser palhaço; e na verdade não sabem o quanto é bom ser palhaço.

M- Você acha que é uma linguagem do coração, uma linguagem…

S- Acho que é uma linguagem da alma, sim, mas que depois que a gente sabe que existe essa alma, esse coração, temos que ter também a arte. Então aí chega o trabalho. Aí vamos transformar em ofício. Então temos que pegar essa alma, essa vocação e trabalhar. Aí sim, eu vou pegar as técnicas. Por que também não adianta só ter alma, só ter espírito e querer fazer graçinha. Não, tem que saber lidar com isso e transformar isso em arte. Acho que é como se fosse uma pedra bruta que se tem que lapidar para transformá-la num diamante, numa verdadeira obra.

M- Entendo

S- É isso. Acho que é um ofício difícil, mas é um ofício gratificante.

M- Obrigado

S- Obrigada você.

Conversations about Clown and Zen: Listening, Connection

This conversation with Roshi Egyoku took place during my six weeks (Jan-Feb 2007) as an artist in residence at the Zen center of Los Angeles. A few times a week, we would sit down for a half hour chat to examine the relationship of Clowning and Zen.

Listening, a clown’s perspective.

Performing as clown involves listening to the whole that binds the stage/performer(s) and the audience, with all ones senses. Each performer plays this in his/her own way, but the general rule is that one plays in relationship to the audience’s response, expanding moments where the audience is responding strongly. Performers will share their listening to different degrees with the audience. ‘The fourth wall is broken down’ is often how clown is differentiated from traditional theater; the fourth wall referring to the imaginary wall between the stage and the audience. How a performer plays this differs greatly, ranging from direct conversation and looks/playing with the audience, to much more subtle and semi hidden reaction to audience response.
The degree of listening complexities is one of the aspects of clown that appears attractive to Zen practitioners. One person on stage will be listening to what he/her is doing, what impulses are being generated and suggesting responses, and to how the audience is reacting to his/her actions. If the number of performers is two three or more, the degree of listening increases in reference to the number of permutations of relationships that are possible in that situation. Often the performer is listening to two or three variables while trying not to allow the brain to interfere with one’s intuitive humoristic responses and impulses.

Dialogue about Listening and Zen

Egyoku: You want me to say about listening, what’s there to say?
Listening would imply a subject and an object, I’m listening to your breath, to a sound , to a voice, to another person’s ideas. I think in Zen listening we would take it even a step further, in that we become what we are listening to, you would call it deep listening, so that you are listening from a place where there is no separation at all, it’s more of an embodied place than ‘I am listening to you” kind of thing. So in terms of the three tenets, that would be the bearing witness place, where we are completely identified, or at one with, whatever is manifesting.

Moshe: To be at one with, so when I recall the Auschwitz (5 day bearing witness retreat) experience, that everything is one, so that you are part of that, not separate from that.

E: Yeah, that you are that. In these brief moments, that is what we are , completely. So I guess you could say that there are different degrees of listening, so that would, in a way, be the most profound listening, where the self and other disappears completely. In a so called relative world, how we function normally, I am listening to you, I am hearing the sound, I am whatever, aware of how you might be feeling, that is a different kind of listening, an emotional listening maybe, kind of a sensitivity which has to do our awareness, but also our capacity to be impermeable, like we are a membrane.

M: In clown we don’t just listen with our ears, we listen with our whole body..

E: Yeah

M: Theoretically you can say ears and eyes, but beyond that there is just a sense, you can feel what is going on, an awareness, and that is a kind of listening too.

E: So that is the whole body, the engagement of the entire body, we say a thousand hands and eyes. Is an expression, all over the body, hands and eyes.

M: that is a Buddhist expression?

E: We have a koan like that.

M: Interesting, I immediately draw a parallel to Ohno sensei, Kazuo Ohno, the great butoh dancer that I studied with. One of his exercises was just that, imagining that you have eyes everywhere on your body, and that they are all seeing, because…

E: Because you do. Oh so that we say deep listening is, is the awakening your eyes throughout the body.

M: Nice.

E; You were saying about butoh?

M: One of the aspects of butoh is the connectivity with space. You don’t cut through space, you move space, you are part of the space, you are not separate from the space. The space being the stage, the image the audience sees, you are part of that, intimately and intensely part of that.

There are different exercises one works with: one is to be conscious of every body action and make sure that you are moving space, connected to the space, not cutting through the space. Another is using your eyes, so seeing everything, 360°, and never losing any of that focus. Ohno sensei worked with the concept that you had eyes everywhere on your body, alive and seeing, so that one is conscious of every minute body movement.

E: That would be a great way to teach meditation.

A parallel to listening is to consider being connected, in the case of clown, with one’s audience.

Egyoku, speaking about the role of the clown:

A vehicle of …, channeling…. bringing forth life. Breaking out, relationship of life, sometimes it is a hidden relationship, sometimes it is the most obvious relationship. This is how I feel when I watch you work-you are connected and you are connecting in many different ways-you are connecting with the person or the circumstance, and you are also connecting people (the audience) with the circumstance, and you are also connecting people with each other, a unifying force. You are connecting the audience with the ‘where’, of certain aspects of life, sometimes it’s the absurdity of it, sometimes there is a sweetness of it, sometimes the tenderness of it, sometimes the beauty of it. It just depends on what your particular thing is, but I think that often times we are just going through life, we are not aware of these things, and suddenly there it is. You are opening up our awareness.

M: A parable that I offer students in clown workshops is :The more connected you are inside, the more connected you are outside.
Is there a parallel in Zen?

E: Oh absolutely, that is what meditation is about, and just the subtle levels of life.

Conversations about Clown and Zen: Being in the Moment

This conversation with Roshi Egyoku took place during my six weeks (Jan-Feb 2007) as an artist in residence at the Zen center of Los Angeles. A few times a week, we would sit down for a half hour chat to examine the relationship of Clowning and Zen.

Being in the moment-Clown Perspective

That is what the clown often has the freedom to do, play the moment. This Spontaneity is often the most magical aspect of clown performance. For that magic to truly generate laughter and touch the audience, the clown is not acting, the clown is playing his/her clown world. This clown world is created from one’s own life experience informing one’s truest feelings with a sense of humor, absurdity and ridiculousness.

Being In the Moment-Zen Perspective
(the abbreviations are E for Egyoku, and M for Moshe)

E: It’s a tricky one in a way because it has become such a common place expression. Every body says that (be in the moment). Even George Bush said (in his speech last night) ‘here and now’ (state of the union 2007). I said hey, don’t steal our language.

M: Ram Dass said ‘Be here now’

E: You know Maesumi Roshi had a great expression about the moment, he said “ Whatever the moment is”. I never knew whether he was saying ‘whatever is manifesting’ or ‘what is a moment? What is that?’ What is that?

M: yes, what is that?

E: I think pretty much it means ‘being present’. There is a sense of presence with a clear mind so that we are actually connected to what is really going on.

M; Yes

E: Present with a clear mind, open heart. So that we are available for what is there, and not in cased in our own little world. It is very very hard, when you think about the challenge of having a clear mind.

Conversations about Clown and Zen, Clown at the Zen Center

This conversation with Roshi Egyoku took place during my six weeks (Jan-Feb 2007) as an artist in residence at the Zen center of Los Angeles. A few times a week, we would sit down for a half hour chat to examine the relationship of Clowning and Zen.

Moshe: What is the clown doing here?

Egyoku: I think it is a great question, and I think that it is a question that we should keep raising actually. For one thing, I think that is the first question that arises. What is he doing here? What place does he have here?

M: Some people are still a little skeptical…

E: Yes it just challenges, what should we be doing here? What is Zen? What is spirituality? What is it really? This is why we have to take it out of the clothes, and the words. This is where we have to trust that we can really make it our own.

M: I really find the creative side of life akin to all this, because that is where it comes from. It comes from letting go.
this weekend, I was talking to my brother about a script he and his writing partner were writing (they are comedy screenwriters). His story was about how all week he couldn’t get around a problem in the script. This one part didn’t feel right, they felt stuck.

E: that is part of the process…

M: That’s what you said in the koan class and I shared with him your thoughts about being stuck. You said “you get used to that. OK here I am in this stuck place and just be there, accept it. Just know that you are going to be there, and that it will pass. That it is just part of the process.”

E: Yes it is wonderful.

M: My brother said something very interesting. He said, “we were going with this fix to the script, and I knew in my gut that it was wrong. I knew and I was upset all week. I knew that I wasn’t going with my gut feeling.

E: And we keep canceling it out. We cancel it out.

M: I think as an artist that is what you do; you go with your gut.

E: Well life is a great artwork. It is a creation. We kind of think that it is happening to us. But actually we are creating it every moment. It’s all our creation, karmically and otherwise. When you start to step into that way of seeing things, it becomes a whole different now.
M: Art is Zen in that way, isn’t it? It demands letting go of the thought process. One becomes so deeply concentrated in the art that everything else dissolves. Which is why for me the practice of clown is akin to Zen.

E: Yes, it is just another way to reinforce that way of being, that way of complete embodied presence. From a Zen perspective we would look at it that way. We have our forms, but there are other forms that could really get us to…I mean look at how hard it is for us to be a pillar (referring to the Koan workshop)

Post conversation notes:
Indeed in the koan workshop, at one point, we went around the oblong circle of some 40 participants in the dharma hall, and different participants stood up and physically embodied being a pillar. The koan is “Hide yourself in a pillar”, or sometimes they say “show me a pillar”.

Conversations about Clown, Marceline of the Excentricos

This conversation about clown took place in the kitchen of the Excentricos’ house on Nov. 5th, 2007. Marceline, along with Zaza and Josep are the Excentricos tour their show ‘Musica Maestro’ around Europe, and the world. They are in the process of creating a new show ‘Rococo Bananas which will premiere early next year. I first met Marceline and Josep in 1983-84, when they were the duo ‘Marceline and Sylvestre’, and we both performed in Barcelona’s Plaza del Pi. this conversation took place in French. Despite my best efforts, certain words, phrases, expressions just don’t translate that well, so  I have posted the original interview (including all my spelling mistakes) below the English translation.

Moshe: So for you, what is woman clown?

Marceline: It’s carrying a lot of baggage and running behind the guys.

Moshe: And a medium length definition?

Marceline: It’s a lot of sacrifices…. But it’s formidable (wonderful), I can permit myself a liberty with the idea of woman. That’s the positive side of the story.
You see, when I created the number with the vacuum cleaner (which veers out of control and starts attacking Marceline who is in evening gown and jewelry ), it wasn’t specifically for women, that was unconscious, almost. You know the stories (about life) that you’re obliged to be cute, obliged to be this, that….when I fall on my ass, everybody laughs. It gives a great freedom in relation to the roles of women, and where you are placed in society. I represent someone who wants to do everything, yet I am the most incapable. You see, they play music better than me. The men go straight whereas the woman take a more global look, looking at the surroundings, whereas men go straight for the goal.

I want to do everything, and that is special to show a woman capable of doing everything.

Moshe: It comes back to the story that the clown permits people to laugh about their own problems and constraints in life; and what I am hearing is that you are on that pathway.

Marceline: Because I see it in public. When I was doing the street (performing) I saw that the neighborhood women loved me, and that is special. For me it is really special. And that also drew the line that I took. It is true that clowning is to find oneself, and to play a little with ones complexes, and that encourages that a lot.
In the end it’s true that people project themselves. The laugh about you, but it is really themselves and that is special. I found that nice.
For women it is truly important, because they feel behind men a lot despite everything. One can easily say that we (women) are liberated and this and that. I don’t think we have that audacity and are that liberated. You are still expected to be cute, to be pretty; and I like to be good. I am well dressed, you have seen my costumes. But I am clumsy in them, I like that. I like that!

It pleases me that I have the women with me. It is a ‘spectacle populaire’ , we like to play for everyone. It is moving when the women laugh a lot, all of that moves me.

Moshe: I think that is what you are talking about when you talk about ‘plastic clowns’.

Marceline: Because you don’t touch the heart. It doesn’t (the plastic clowning) touch people emotionally. You (on stage) are in the light and you have three hundred people in the dark who don’t know each other. You have to touch them, if possible, all of them. It is a beautiful adventure. It is not like looking at an image at the movies. And when they laugh like crazy, it is very moving. I mean, you are there, it goes both ways. We get really excited. We have fun like crazy now in the show. We have fun with them, it’s WITH them. That is so special. It is what is truly beautiful in this work.

Moshe: I think about the depth, where is that spark of humor that is somewhere inside that lights up the possibilities…

Marceline: Well it sure is extraordinary when it comes, when it flies.

Moshe: ah it’s beautiful

Marceline: Yes.

Moshe: thank You Marceline….

——————-

Moshe: Alors pour toi femme clown c’est quoi?

Marceline: C’est porter beaucoup de baggages et courir derriere les mecs.

M: Et la definition moyenne.

Marceline: C’est beacoup de sacrifices….mais c’est formidable, je peut me permetter une liberté avec l’idée de la femme…ca c’est le coté plus positif de l’histoire.
Tu vois j’ai fait l’histoire de l’aspirateur, au depart ce n’etait pas (specifiquement) pour les femmes, c’est inconscient presque. Des histoires que tu est obligé d’etre mignonne, obligé d’etre ceci…. quand je me casse la guele tout le monde rigole. Ca donne une grande liberté par rapport aux roles des femmes et ou c’est qu’on te met dans la societé. Je represente quelqu’un qui veut tout faire, c’est moi la plus nul dans le spectacle. Tu vois ils jouent mieux de la musique que moi. Les hommes y vont tout droit, les femmes prennent un regard plus globale, qui regarde ce qui est autour, les hommes vont droit au goal.

Je veut tout faire, et ca c’est chouette de montrer la femme capable de tout faire.

M: Ca revient a l’histoire du clown qui permet au gens de rires des problemes, des contraintes dans la vie, et ce que j’entends justement c’est que tu est sur cette vois.

Marceline: Parce que je le voit dans le publique. Quand je faisait la rue, je voyais que toutes les femmes du quartier m’adorée, et ca c’est chouette. Pour moi c’est chouette. Et cela a aussi dessiné la ligne que j’ai prise. C’est vrai que etre clown c’est ce trouver soi meme, et un peu jouer avec ses complexes et ca encourage beaucoup. A la fin, c’est vrai que les gens ils se projetent. Ils rigolent de toi, mais ils rigolent de eux et ca c’est chouette. Moi j’ai trouvée ca bien.
Et pour les femmes c’est vraiment important, qu’elles se sentent derrière les hommes beaucoup malgres tout. On a beau dire qu’on est liberee ci ca, moi je crois qu’on a pas cette audace et cette liberté. Il faut etre encore bien mignonne, bien jolie, et moi j’aime bien etre bien, je suis bien habillée-tu as vu mes costumes. Mais je suis maladroite dedans, j’aime ca, on aime ca.

Moi ca me plait que j’ai les femmes avec moi. C’est un spectacle populaire tu vois, on aime bien faire pour tous le monde. C’est émouvant quand les femmes ririent très fort, tout ca ca m’ému.

M: Je pense que c’est ca quand tu parles des clowns plastiques…

Marceline: Parce que ca ne touche pas le coeur. Ca touche pas les emotions. Toi tu est dans la lumière et tu as trois cents personnes dans le noir qui se connaissent pas et il faut les toucher, si possible tout le monde. C’est une belle aventure. C’est pas comme regarder une image aux ciné. Et quand ils rigolent comme des fous, c’est émouvant, quoi, t’es la…c’est dans les deux senses. Nous on est vachement excité. On s’amuse comme des fous maintenant dans le spectacle. On s’amuse avec eux, c’est avec eux. Ca c’est tres chouette. C’est ce qui il y a de beau dans ce metier.

M: je pense que ce profendeur, ou est cet étincelle d’humour qui est quelque part qui allume des possibilités…

Marceline: Oh ben c’est extraordinaire quand ca vient, quand ca vole.

M: Ah c’est beau.

Marceline: Oui!

M: merci Marceline.

Conversations about Clown, Josep and Zaza of the Excentricos

This is the first of many interviews to be posted here about clown.

Here is a very short conversation (from November 5th. 2007) with Zaza and Josep about Clowning. Zaza is French and Josep is Catalan, hence in Josep’s case, the fractured english. hort interview with Josep and Zaza of the Excentricos. Marceline’s ( the third member of the Excentricos) interview to be posted very soon.

Moshe: Alors Zaza, clown en 5 mots ou plus.

Zaza: En 5 mots ou plus?

Moshe: Oui

Zaza: Clown, il y a cinq letters, une (en comptant les doigts), deux trois quatre et cinq.

Moshe: Ah….. Josep, clown en cinq mots ou plus?

Josep: C’est bien d’etre clown. C’est tres bien. C’est une chance.

Translation:

Moshe: So Zaza, clown in 5 words or more?

Zaza: In 5 words or more?

Moshe: yes

Zaza: Clown, there are 5 letters: one (counting the fingers of this hand), two, three, four, five.

Moshe: Ah….. Josep, clown in 5 words or more?

Josep: It’s good to be clown. It’s really good. It’s an opportunity.

Second short interview with Josep of the Excentricos:

Moshe: About clown, You said be outrageous?

Josep : yeah that helps, for the comedy.

Moshe: Because that is what people want?

Josep: Because people want to see a person put in an awful situation, and a get a life out of it, and survive it. That is what they like about us, about clowning, the invulnerability of it. Never dies, never feels, well he feels, but he doesn’t care. That encourages a lot out of the people.

Moshe: You said something about in the worst situation possible.

Josep: Being the lowest person in the house. That is the duty of the clown is to be the lowest, therefore he will overcome any obstacle. Be an example for a person having financial troubles, who comes to the theater to have fun.

I think that is worth it. That is what matters. It is a shamanic approach to the thing.